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Maniacs in the Weapons Labs

By wiredog (Thu Aug 07, 2008 at 09:15:12 AM EST) (all tags)

According to the FBI:
Dr. Ivins, A sociopathic, homicidal lunatic with access to weapons of mass destruction was employed, undetected, for over twenty years by the U.S. Army! That employee of the U.S. Army planned, executed, and then covered up an attack on the United States with a bioweapon, making use of U.S. Army resources in the process of doing so. And he did it completely on his own, with none of his co-workers suspecting a thing!

Which leads to some questions:

First, is anyone going to lose their job over this amazingly severe security breach?

How many other maniacal whack jobs with security clearances are running around our nation's weapons labs?

Are our nation's nuclear weapons as (un)secure as our nation's biological weapons? (Given the USAF's recent problems, I guess we know the answer to that. But still...) What are the chances that a maniacal whack job will get ahold of one of them?

What kind of idiots do our weapons labs employ that they didn't notice Dr. Evil running around for 20 years? These are the people we depend upon to defend ourselves and our nation?

What are the chances that the FBI has, once again, fucked up and chosen a (conveniently dead) scapegoat?

Any other unanswered questions?

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Maniacs in the Weapons Labs | 68 comments (68 topical, 0 hidden) | Trackback

Jesus Save Us From What IF by Gedvondur (4.00 / 2) #1 Thu Aug 07, 2008 at 09:19:25 AM EST

Dude,

They don't even have good proof that dude did the deed. They have circumstantial evidence, part of which is that the guy killed himself. Can you say "FBI Scapegoat, Part II"?

Besides, we are all fucking animals. Every one of us has the seeds of murder inside. Most of us just don't let them sprout.

In short, I didn't like your diary today.

Gedvondur
"If you do not sin, then you too may some day float like a big pink Goodyear blimp of The Lord." -theboz

Speak for yourself. by ObviousTroll (2.00 / 0) #8 Thu Aug 07, 2008 at 10:02:36 AM EST

I don't have the seeds of murder inside of me. I sublimated them all by becoming a clown.

--
Has anybody seen my clue? I know I had it when I came in here.
[ Parent ]

Right, just like by wiredog (4.00 / 1) #9 Thu Aug 07, 2008 at 10:04:46 AM EST

Pogo the Clown.

Earth First!
_{(We can strip mine the rest later.)}
[ Parent ]

Exactly. by ObviousTroll (4.00 / 1) #10 Thu Aug 07, 2008 at 10:09:17 AM EST

No, wait....

Look. You can't prove a damn thing buddy. Don't honk the clown's nose, that's all I'm sayin'.

--
Has anybody seen my clue? I know I had it when I came in here.
[ Parent ]

: The FBI can prove by wiredog (2.00 / 0) #11 Thu Aug 07, 2008 at 10:19:08 AM EST

anything they have to... But I don't work for them. (Or, right now, anyone.)

Earth First!
_{(We can strip mine the rest later.)}
[ Parent ]

*cough* by DullTrev (4.00 / 2) #2 Thu Aug 07, 2008 at 09:23:52 AM EST

How many other maniacal whack jobs with security clearances are running around our nation's weapons labs?

Nah, too easy, I'm leaving that one alone.

--
DFJ?

Given an ex-husi whackjob by sasquatchan (2.00 / 0) #18 Thu Aug 07, 2008 at 10:58:03 AM EST

DU still work at a 'seekrit gubmint lab,' no ? He wasn't exactly a stable guy at times..

[ Parent ]

I myself once worked by ObviousTroll (4.00 / 1) #20 Thu Aug 07, 2008 at 11:50:35 AM EST

for a three-letter agency in a five-sided building, ifyouknowwhatImean....

It was excruciatingly boring.

--
Has anybody seen my clue? I know I had it when I came in here.
[ Parent ]

You worked for the GAO!? (nt) by ucblockhead (4.00 / 2) #24 Thu Aug 07, 2008 at 12:31:00 PM EST

----
_{ウセーバラケダ}
[ Parent ]

: Dammit by ObviousTroll (4.00 / 2) #25 Thu Aug 07, 2008 at 12:33:38 PM EST

you weren't supposed to figure it out!

--
Has anybody seen my clue? I know I had it when I came in here.
[ Parent ]

Are you sure that wasn't by wiredog (2.00 / 0) #36 Thu Aug 07, 2008 at 02:53:27 PM EST

a five letter agency in a three sided building?

Earth First!
_{(We can strip mine the rest later.)}
[ Parent ]

Please re-write as proper conspiracy by Herring (4.00 / 4) #3 Thu Aug 07, 2008 at 09:33:29 AM EST

I suggest incorporating some of the following:

The description of Ivins as being a bit mad has come from one person. Everyone else who knew him says no.
The anthrax attacks came hard on the heels of 9/11 when the press might otherwise have been asking how the fuck 9/11 happened.
Why did Cheney start taking antibiotics the day before the first delivery?
Why was the first target a tabloid newspaper (who had recently been publishing the antics of the younger Bushes)?
The other targets were politicians who could've derailed the PATRIOT Act
How many other scientists or experts have "committed suicide" like Ivins or David Kelly?

There - that's plenty to get you started.

You can't outlaw rabbits! They'll just go underground - Milton Jones

Too tinfoil hatty. by wiredog (2.00 / 0) #4 Thu Aug 07, 2008 at 09:38:59 AM EST

But parts of it may be usable.

Earth First!
_{(We can strip mine the rest later.)}
[ Parent ]

: Forgot the misspelling of "penacillin" by Herring (4.00 / 1) #5 Thu Aug 07, 2008 at 09:46:30 AM EST

Most of the stuff is actually true though. Makes you think ....

You can't outlaw rabbits! They'll just go underground - Milton Jones
[ Parent ]
: Tin-Foil Hattie by ObviousTroll (4.00 / 1) #21 Thu Aug 07, 2008 at 11:54:20 AM EST

You know her too!? I just bumped into her yesterday, on the corner. Damn near dumped her shopping cart full of cats and personal posessions, too.

--
Has anybody seen my clue? I know I had it when I came in here.
[ Parent ]

The basic problem I have with 9/11 truthers by ObviousTroll (4.00 / 1) #22 Thu Aug 07, 2008 at 11:57:26 AM EST

is that they ask us to believe the US government pulled off a complex conspiracy involving hundreds of people and months of preparations, but then completely forgot to plan for the war in Iraq.

--
Has anybody seen my clue? I know I had it when I came in here.
[ Parent ]

If that's the basic problem . . . by slozo (4.00 / 2) #31 Thu Aug 07, 2008 at 01:55:01 PM EST

. . . you have, you should probably be looking at the first invasion - Afghanistan - and whether it had been planned for well in advance (hint: it was).

[ Parent ]

To what end? by ObviousTroll (2.00 / 0) #32 Thu Aug 07, 2008 at 02:05:50 PM EST

I mean, you can argue that Iraq was all about oil, and maybe you'd be right - but why go into Afghanistan? To corner the global heroin trade?

--
Has anybody seen my clue? I know I had it when I came in here.
[ Parent ]

: Sorry, but I can see this . . . by slozo (2.00 / 0) #34 Thu Aug 07, 2008 at 02:19:35 PM EST

. . . devolving into a long discussion with no end, and I have now been handed more fires to put out.
You'll have to research it yourself.

[ Parent ]

As I've said before by wiredog (2.00 / 0) #38 Thu Aug 07, 2008 at 02:55:24 PM EST

The US military plans for all sorts of contingencies. There are plans on the books for invasions of Mexico and Canada. Just because something is planned for doesn't mean it's expected.

Earth First!
_{(We can strip mine the rest later.)}
[ Parent ]

And what a smashing success those plans were! by lm (4.00 / 1) #43 Thu Aug 07, 2008 at 03:03:30 PM EST

The US led invasion of Afghanistan was is truly a veritable model of a well thought out plan put into place in an effective fashion.

There is no more degenerate kind of state than that in which the richest are supposed to be the best.
Cicero, The Republic
[ Parent ]

But we had special forces on horses with laser by georgeha (4.00 / 1) #45 Thu Aug 07, 2008 at 03:08:09 PM EST

bombing tanks! What could be better than that.

[ Parent ]

: That was a great picture by wiredog (2.00 / 0) #47 Thu Aug 07, 2008 at 03:11:24 PM EST

Earth First!
_{(We can strip mine the rest later.)}
[ Parent ]

The invasion went quite well by wiredog (4.00 / 1) #46 Thu Aug 07, 2008 at 03:10:28 PM EST

Then all the follow-on forces got diverted to Iraq. Now we're on the verge of losing both.

I will never vote for a Republican again.

In fact, yesterday I gave Obama $100. I'd give him a grand, but I'm unemployed.

Earth First!
_{(We can strip mine the rest later.)}
[ Parent ]

You unemployed bums always vote Democrat by georgeha (4.00 / 2) #48 Thu Aug 07, 2008 at 03:12:31 PM EST

[ Parent ]

The invasion went quite well by lm (4.00 / 1) #54 Thu Aug 07, 2008 at 03:23:32 PM EST

The coalition of the willing, after all, achieved all of its objectives during battles in such spots as Tora Bora.

There is no more degenerate kind of state than that in which the richest are supposed to be the best.
Cicero, The Republic
[ Parent ]

By the time of Tora Bora by wiredog (4.00 / 1) #56 Thu Aug 07, 2008 at 03:37:56 PM EST

The follow-on units were already being held back for Iraq.

Earth First!
_{(We can strip mine the rest later.)}
[ Parent ]

: That can't be true by lm (2.00 / 0) #59 Thu Aug 07, 2008 at 04:54:21 PM EST

The invasion of Afghanistan went quite well.
There is no more degenerate kind of state than that in which the richest are supposed to be the best.
Cicero, The Republic
[ Parent ]

Hmmm by Gedvondur (2.00 / 0) #64 Thu Aug 07, 2008 at 10:09:11 PM EST

I don't find the fact we had Afghanistan planned particularly compelling or even more than business as usual in the Pentagon. The US has invasion plans for nearly every country in the world. Especially hostile ones. The US has had that since WWII.

I think it is the "Office of Strategic Contingency Planning" or some shit in the Pentagon. I remember they got some publicity in the 80s because they have invasion plans for Canada and Mexico and some Congress-critters were finger-pointing about government waste.

Gedvondur
"If you do not sin, then you too may some day float like a big pink Goodyear blimp of The Lord." -theboz
[ Parent ]

: Wasn't just a rough guideline . . . by slozo (4.00 / 1) #65 Thu Aug 07, 2008 at 10:23:16 PM EST

. . . or contingency plan - but if you really want to find out, you have to look.

[ Parent ]

Has trouble delivering the mail, too. by wiredog (4.00 / 1) #37 Thu Aug 07, 2008 at 02:54:18 PM EST

Earth First!
_{(We can strip mine the rest later.)}
[ Parent ]

Ah but by Herring (2.00 / 0) #67 Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 04:55:40 AM EST

Yes, the Bush/Cheney administration do a very good job of appearing incompentent, yet when it counts (e.g. 2000 election) they are able to pull off quite elaborate scams.

You can't outlaw rabbits! They'll just go underground - Milton Jones
[ Parent ]

Wait. . . by nightflameblue (4.00 / 2) #6 Thu Aug 07, 2008 at 09:59:25 AM EST

is this the guy they're saying they found the *SAME* Anthrax spores in his lab, when that was the lab being used to test the Anthrax spores after the attacks to see the exact type they were?

The whole thing just feels a little too wrapped up in a bow for me.

From the sound of it by ObviousTroll (2.00 / 0) #7 Thu Aug 07, 2008 at 10:01:43 AM EST

they took an emotionally fragile man and drove him to suicide with the fear that they would do to him what they did to Hatfield.

--
Has anybody seen my clue? I know I had it when I came in here.

: Those fucking McCoys! [nt] by debacle (2.00 / 0) #13 Thu Aug 07, 2008 at 10:46:16 AM EST

"I'm very responsive to certain stimuli, and pain is pretty much at the top of that list." - BadDoggie

[ Parent ]
: Strange thing about Hatfield by wumpus (4.00 / 1) #63 Thu Aug 07, 2008 at 09:21:39 PM EST

is that there was a report about an exagarated resume. The real question was did he lie on his clearance forms? Best answer so far is no, which makes you wonder why nobody checked them against each other.
Wumpus

[ Parent ]

manaical what jobs by lm (4.00 / 1) #12 Thu Aug 07, 2008 at 10:30:11 AM EST

Large numbers of people with antisocial personality disorder are undetectable under normal circumstances. It's a good thing that it's rare. Civilization itself is founded on the premise that most people are social creatures.

There is no more degenerate kind of state than that in which the richest are supposed to be the best.
Cicero, The Republic

Less and less rare these days [nt] by debacle (2.00 / 0) #14 Thu Aug 07, 2008 at 10:46:45 AM EST

"I'm very responsive to certain stimuli, and pain is pretty much at the top of that list." - BadDoggie

[ Parent ]

Population density. by nightflameblue (2.00 / 0) #15 Thu Aug 07, 2008 at 10:52:07 AM EST

Cattle freak the fuck out when kept in too close quarters for long periods of time too.

[ Parent ]

Cattle haven't been known to recklessly split ... by debacle (2.00 / 0) #16 Thu Aug 07, 2008 at 10:55:34 AM EST

atoms.

"I'm very responsive to certain stimuli, and pain is pretty much at the top of that list." - BadDoggie

[ Parent ]

Another reason by Breaker (4.00 / 3) #23 Thu Aug 07, 2008 at 12:06:02 PM EST

To curse what the USian educational system has become.

Next thing you know, your chickens will no longer be able to do differential calculus.

differential cluculus. by wiredog (4.00 / 1) #39 Thu Aug 07, 2008 at 02:56:17 PM EST

Earth First!
_{(We can strip mine the rest later.)}
[ Parent ]

: You see? by Breaker (2.00 / 0) #62 Thu Aug 07, 2008 at 06:03:11 PM EST

There goes the neighbourhood, already.

[ Parent ]

I saw that subject. . . by nightflameblue (4.00 / 1) #26 Thu Aug 07, 2008 at 12:48:06 PM EST

assumed "skulls" and was getting ready with a big reply about the number of murdered cattle I dealt with in my day, then noticed what you actually wrote.

Damn youse for ruinin' a perfectly good rant.

[ Parent ]

moo n/t by gpig (2.00 / 0) #19 Thu Aug 07, 2008 at 11:41:42 AM EST

---
(, ,') -- eep
"This option is deprecated, as it is conceptually flawed." -- man psql
[ Parent ]

Really? by lm (2.00 / 0) #17 Thu Aug 07, 2008 at 10:56:45 AM EST

Methinks that this `fact' was pulled entirely out of your corybungus.

There is no more degenerate kind of state than that in which the richest are supposed to be the best.
Cicero, The Republic
[ Parent ]

Never stated it as fact by debacle (4.00 / 1) #30 Thu Aug 07, 2008 at 01:51:54 PM EST

Methinks you take 8 internet pedant damage.

"I'm very responsive to certain stimuli, and pain is pretty much at the top of that list." - BadDoggie

[ Parent ]

: did too! by lm (4.00 / 1) #33 Thu Aug 07, 2008 at 02:10:47 PM EST

So there.
There is no more degenerate kind of state than that in which the richest are supposed to be the best.
Cicero, The Republic
[ Parent ]

He did it? by duxup (4.00 / 1) #27 Thu Aug 07, 2008 at 12:50:54 PM EST

I need to do some more reading but from what I've heard there is a lot of info being released on the guy, but no prof of his involvement.

Just like the last guy who they did that to regarding the anthrax case.... and he was innocent.
____

Heh. by blixco (4.00 / 1) #28 Thu Aug 07, 2008 at 01:37:06 PM EST

How many other maniacal whack jobs with security clearances are running around our nation's weapons labs?

Wrong question! The proper question is, how many of the maniacal whack jobs with clearances that run around our nation's weapons labs are dangerous to the US and her allies, and not just the enemy?
---------------------------------
"You bring the weasel, I'll bring the whiskey." - kellnerin

Modern Government Nanny State Reaction: by nightflameblue (4.00 / 2) #29 Thu Aug 07, 2008 at 01:41:54 PM EST

No one who isn't a whack job would request clearance in the first place. Therefore, we should do away with clearance, as it would create fewer whack jobs!

NO MORE SECRETS!

[ Parent ]

And the idea is by blixco (4.00 / 1) #35 Thu Aug 07, 2008 at 02:37:48 PM EST

that the clearance process weeds out the total whackos, but only the government services do "lifestyle" checks that might catch a whacko.

The being said, if you're fired for being crazy you can sue for discrimination.
---------------------------------
"You bring the weasel, I'll bring the whiskey." - kellnerin
[ Parent ]

That might be the idea. by nightflameblue (4.00 / 1) #40 Thu Aug 07, 2008 at 02:57:31 PM EST

But the truth is the clearance process weeds out the DUMB total whackos. The intelligent ones, which make up a surprising number of people we'd consider whack-a-loons, make it through the clearance process with little problem.

As to your other point, the joys of living in a super PC era is that anybody can sue for anything. YAY MODERN ERA!

[ Parent ]

Have you been through that process? by blixco (4.00 / 1) #49 Thu Aug 07, 2008 at 03:13:13 PM EST

It is fairly intensive on the civilian side, where they can't even ask us lifestyle questions. The military side, they get deep.

They know if you're a whack job.

They just don't care.

That's what should scare us.
---------------------------------
"You bring the weasel, I'll bring the whiskey." - kellnerin
[ Parent ]

Not personally. by nightflameblue (2.00 / 0) #51 Thu Aug 07, 2008 at 03:14:43 PM EST

But I've had three "friends" all go through it and relate what they could to me. All three of those people were the folks the rest of the coworkers thought would be most likely to casually walk in to work carrying a weapon and start blowing people away. Not because they were upset, but just because they'd think it was an interesting thing to do.

[ Parent ]

: Exactly. by blixco (2.00 / 0) #53 Thu Aug 07, 2008 at 03:19:52 PM EST

The problem isn't that the process doesn't find the whackos. The process does. It works great. But if the crazy person doesn't mind being called crazy (which would make them susceptible to blackmail), then the crazy part is a bonus for the employer.
I've known two weapons designers. One was my stepfather's dad. He was not crazy. He was a nuclear chemist turned nuclear physicist turned theoretical physicist. He looked at the sub-micro level, doing his best to increase yields of our nation's stockpile of hydrogen weapons.
The other guy is a rifle maker. He's a stone cold killer. He deals with the macro-level, and makes his living with death.
Big differences, yet they both hold the same clearance.
---------------------------------
"You bring the weasel, I'll bring the whiskey." - kellnerin
[ Parent ]

lifestyle questions by wiredog (4.00 / 1) #57 Thu Aug 07, 2008 at 03:42:46 PM EST

The only lifestyle question they don't ask is "Are you gay?" If it turns out that you are a closeted, but active, gay then your clearance can be pulled on the grounds that you're a blackmail risk.

Seriously, they gave me a clearance. I'm not a blackmail risk because I told them about every skeleton in the closet. All the drugs, booze, loose women, other stuff. All of it. No problem!

Except that I can't, ever, work a federal law enforcement contract.

Earth First!
_{(We can strip mine the rest later.)}
[ Parent ]

: I can't say "yep! exactly" right now. by blixco (2.00 / 0) #60 Thu Aug 07, 2008 at 04:55:23 PM EST

but I will say that I am now compulsive with the truth.
---------------------------------
"You bring the weasel, I'll bring the whiskey." - kellnerin
[ Parent ]

There's at least two people posting to this diary by wiredog (2.00 / 0) #41 Thu Aug 07, 2008 at 02:57:42 PM EST

Who have, or have had, high level government issued security clearances.

Earth First!
_{(We can strip mine the rest later.)}
[ Parent ]

And yet another. by ammoniacal (4.00 / 5) #42 Thu Aug 07, 2008 at 03:01:41 PM EST

I held one, and I'm fucking nuts.

This coomenat has be n soidnsord by hurricanbe ice malt liqur
[ Parent ]

The AA group I'm in by wiredog (4.00 / 1) #44 Thu Aug 07, 2008 at 03:03:33 PM EST

You could put together a pretty good electronics/software shop out of it. With a well staffed secure facility. We're all nuts.

Oh, and a former co-worker of the dead guy they're acccusing is in that group.

Earth First!
_{(We can strip mine the rest later.)}
[ Parent ]

I surprised by blixco (2.00 / 0) #52 Thu Aug 07, 2008 at 03:15:51 PM EST

the folks here by telling them about Dell. About the drug and alcohol use and abuse that drove the company. The bizarre cliques that developed out of those drunken / stoned parties. The way the place existed solely as a monument to High Times and Cheap Beer.

Or expensive scotch.

But at Dell, if they found out you were psycho, you were offered counseling and whatnot. Quietly placed in a quiet job, then slowly let go.

In the military, they find out you're psycho, they're going to give you a promotion.
---------------------------------
"You bring the weasel, I'll bring the whiskey." - kellnerin
[ Parent ]

: Dell was that way too? by nightflameblue (4.00 / 1) #55 Thu Aug 07, 2008 at 03:24:51 PM EST

So, SO funny. In Gateway, Dell was seen as the devil. Yet, sounds like the entire culture, especially among the management, was exactly the same way.
I still remember the company Christmas Partay where Ted got up on stage and drank an entire fifth of Jack Daniels while sitting at the piano with the Thunderbirds. Yes, THOSE Thunderbirds.

Gee, I sure wonder why Gateway drowned itself.

[ Parent ]

I need to sign up for three more accounts. . . by nightflameblue (4.00 / 1) #50 Thu Aug 07, 2008 at 03:13:13 PM EST

just to give this enough fours.

[ Parent ]

Define "high level"... by atreides (2.00 / 0) #58 Thu Aug 07, 2008 at 04:35:20 PM EST

...because I had a Top Secret and, while I'm probably not actually insane, I currently style myself Benevolent Tyrant of Earth.

_{He sails from world to world in a flying tomb, serving gods who eat hope.}
[ Parent ]

Technically, higher than that. by ammoniacal (2.00 / 0) #61 Thu Aug 07, 2008 at 04:59:22 PM EST

This coomenat has be n soidnsord by hurricanbe ice malt liqur
[ Parent ]

: Double top secret? (nt) by slozo (4.00 / 1) #66 Thu Aug 07, 2008 at 10:24:37 PM EST

[ Parent ]

That's it. by wiredog (2.00 / 0) #68 Sun Aug 10, 2008 at 02:59:42 PM EST

Count's above 5 now, I think.

Earth First!
_{(We can strip mine the rest later.)}
[ Parent ]

Maniacs in the Weapons Labs | 68 comments (68 topical, 0 hidden) | Trackback